Newbie question about the fixer being overpowered

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ShadowInTheNight
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Post by ShadowInTheNight » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:31 pm

Bobby Daniels wrote:OMHH insta cast? It has a 2,7 s cast time and I find it ridiculous to invest in nano casting speed as a soldier at lower levels.
So let's say that at best you start using it decently after lvl 100, but the fixer has a healing line at no casting cost (after the HoT is applied) all the game.
And like I said: having a dodger that can heal is beyond me. Maybe they should think about giving HoTs to tankers as well.
In terms of cast times, viral compiler and full agg goes long way. Enforcer, which really is designed as main tanking class, have HoT. And no casting cost in fixer hots? Have you looked at the nano cost of those things? I have found it to be easier to reach the nano skills than the nano pool to cast fixer hots at lower levels! That in combination with relatively low DD of non-twinked fixer means that either you will spend a lot of time fighting without both HoTs or you spend a lot of time sitting and recharging your nanopool. Just roll a fixer and see how it really plays instead of looking at the theoretical numbers which have very little to do with the full picture.

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Llie
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Post by Llie » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:29 pm

Bobby Daniels wrote:
Weeping Willow wrote:moreover, nothing forbid a soldier to get a HOT ... too bad TMS cant be cast on target :)
I wasn't talking about buff begging.
And to have a soldier to cast TMS more than 2 times with a full nano bar, maybe we should chose the Nanomage breed.
But then we would have to figure out what to do with the 2 minutes nano shutdown.
Well, a soldier plus a doc in a team is formidable. I guess you should have clarified, we're talking about self-buffed soloing ability comparison. There are perks for nano regen. Are we talking froob only?

At lower levels, a fixer is fairly easy to play, but I as an endish game fixer you will not solo DB, you will not survive in a Beast raid (without significant outside buffing, healing etc..), you will have great difficulty in general in Pande.

If you are a soldier below TL5/6 then you need to recognize that all professions are hard to play below TL5/6. Things get easier for most professions after TL6 -- well, with the exception of fixers, actually.

End game soldiers will way more powerful at dishing out damage at end game than fixers, and killing things faster means them not having as much time to kill you.

End game doctors are virtually unkillable compared to end game than fixers because they can heal themselves (and others on top of that) practically forever.

If you are a soldier, I recommend you challenge a comparably equipped fixer to a duel without outside buffs. (I do not mean, you are a level 150 soldier with fair equipment, and that other person is a level 150 fixer twink with GA4. I mean a fair fight.) I guarantee you, unless you really have no idea what you're doing as a soldier you will dominate the fixer.

I still don't understand this thread. If you are a soldier with fixer envy, roll a fixer and put this to rest once and for all. Everyone here is telling you that what you're seeing from the fixer nano-line does not translate into an OP fixer experience.

Weeping Willow
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Post by Weeping Willow » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:47 pm

So basicaly you refuse to use OMHH, and whine because you dont have heals ?

And you compare low level soldiers (where OMHH is "hard" to cast) to fixers with top HOTs ?

good joke.

Bobby Daniels
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Post by Bobby Daniels » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:37 am

I'm not refusing to use OMHH, but at lvl 80 I don't have enough nano skills to use it.
While the soldier uses MC and TS as prioritary skills (for TMS and reflects), PM and SI secondary (for buffs), OMHH uses MM and BM. So I don't see myself having the skills to use it before level 100.
So, we have one healing close to 3s cast time that we can use at around level 100.
And why is it a joke to compare a soldier with no health line (one healing nano is not a healing line) with an evader that has 2 healing lines?
There are no games where you see an evader with healing.
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tgjensen
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Post by tgjensen » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:30 pm

Because evades aren't that great at lower levels. Fixer evade buffs don't beat Precognition (a QL43 nano) until you're able to cast Partial Grid Jump (QL113). A soldier's evades are more expensive IP-wise, but the difference isn't all that great and made up for by that nano, and they have more AC, hp and reflects anyway.

Unless of course you have grid armor, but then you'll have to raise MC on top of TS, MM and BM for heals and PM and SI for your weapon buffs and gridding nanos - ie, all six dark blue nanos, not to mention the amount of credits you'll most likely have to plop down on GA, especially at later levels.
Yes, casting OMHH efficiently is difficult (I'd probably use a nano formula recompiler to save IP on nano inits), but so is being an efficient evader with HOTs as a fixer.

There are two basic types of fighting in this game: It's either a race to see who kills who first, or you try to reach a state of equilibrium where you can (more or less) perpetually evade and/or heal the amount of damage done to you while slowly eating away at your opponent. Soldiers, until you can cast OMHH, belong in the first group. That seems to be your gripe. But in my experience a fixer's heals simply aren't good enough that you'll actually be able to beat mobs much harder than what a soldier could have tanked anyway. It may not look it, but they simply aren't that much out of balance.

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Post by Weeping Willow » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:49 pm

Bobby Daniels wrote:I'm not refusing to use OMHH, but at lvl 80 I don't have enough nano skills to use it.
While the soldier uses MC and TS as prioritary skills (for TMS and reflects), PM and SI secondary (for buffs), OMHH uses MM and BM. So I don't see myself having the skills to use it before level 100.
So, we have one healing close to 3s cast time that we can use at around level 100.
And why is it a joke to compare a soldier with no health line (one healing nano is not a healing line) with an evader that has 2 healing lines?
There are no games where you see an evader with healing.
Ok, so you are talking about level 80.

Ok, let's see... at level 80, a fixer can cast
Blackmarket Prescription : 111-119 HOT every 10 sec
and around :
Detailed Medical Claim : 43-92 HOT every 5sec

and can cast a RS buff that will buff his evades by 34 !! so OP !

If you really want to whine about evaders having heals, I would advise to check advies ...

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Snakebite
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Post by Snakebite » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:17 pm

Actually, at lvl 80 you wanna look at a Docs abilities to OE heals.
Get comps and MM & BM Mochams and your worrys only go as far as keeping some nano in your bar! :D
They can heal against pretty much anything a team can take on, with relative ease...
Simply put, it doesn't matter how much damage you do (to an extent), if you can't die then you'll kill it eventually...
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ShadowInTheNight
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Post by ShadowInTheNight » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:28 am

Snakebite wrote:Actually, at lvl 80 you wanna look at a Docs abilities to OE heals.
Get comps and MM & BM Mochams and your worrys only go as far as keeping some nano in your bar! :D
They can heal against pretty much anything a team can take on, with relative ease...
Simply put, it doesn't matter how much damage you do (to an extent), if you can't die then you'll kill it eventually...
But then doctors have to deal with the annoying nano recharge and, well, it really is annoying.

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Snakebite
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Post by Snakebite » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:36 am

Also a VERY stressful proff to play, that's one of the main reasons I made my engi, for a point and shoot char to play to relieve the stress lol.
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ShadowInTheNight
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Post by ShadowInTheNight » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:39 am

Snakebite wrote:Also a VERY stressful proff to play, that's one of the main reasons I made my engi, for a point and shoot char to play to relieve the stress lol.
Yes, that too. I remember going to Ely hecklers for the first time armed with LE and CH. When there were adds LE didn't quite cut it so I'd throw CH and then I was tanking but CH has such a long recharge that unless you have good amount of HP as buffer you might not survive long enough....

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Snakebite
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Post by Snakebite » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:03 am

I found that if you blow off CH and then run in circles around the tank (who is hopefully mongoing like mad), then I tended to get away with it lol.
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ShadowInTheNight
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Post by ShadowInTheNight » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:31 am

I took different approach and put on Combined Paramedic for HP, nano and -cost so I could take the beating.

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Snakebite
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Post by Snakebite » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:32 am

That's more money than I cared to spend at low level... :lol:
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ShadowInTheNight
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Post by ShadowInTheNight » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:36 am

I was lucky and org mate considered those 2 types of bots to be trash. All I had to provide was the parts from Uncle Bazzit and Basic Armor.
Last edited by ShadowInTheNight on Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Snakebite
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Post by Snakebite » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:43 am

Nice, grats :D lol.
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